Talk: Doom Slayer

That new edit may be the best edit ever. 'Alive - Angry' - Novaseer (talk) 17:25, February 23, 2018 (UTC)

Full of miss-info

Can someone please get rid of all the false fanfic info in this article? id has allready confirmed that this is a reboot, the original games have nothing to do with the current ones. ps: the rabbits foot in quake champions is a reference to the original doom skin and nothing else, so that isnt proof.

Acuriousindividual (talk) 12:27, August 13, 2018 (UTC)

Validity of DOOM 3's inclusion on the DOOM Slayer's page should be reconsidered.

With the new information added by DOOM Eternal, and the recent ports it should be noted that DOOM 3 is not directly cannon with the current DOOM timeline. Quoting from several store page descriptions, excluding steam due to it already having most games on it, it is stated that DOOM 3 is an "action-horror re-telling of the original DOOM." This isn't to say that some things can overlap like the soul cube being present, but the fact that it is stated as a "re-telling" disconnects DOOM 3 with the storyline of the classic games entirely especially since this is the lates statement on DOOM 3's story. Additionally with the latest cannon established by DOOM Eternal, the Slayer's past comes directly from DOOM I, II, and 64 with not even a slight mention of DOOM 3. With this evidence, I believe DOOM 3 should be left out of the DOOM Slayer's page entirely until it is directly proven that DOOM 3 is relevent to DOOM's current cannon. Singe (talk) 05:10, March 29, 2020 (UTC)

Nothing about Doom Eternal, invalidates Doom 3... THe fact is the dvelopers haven't commented at all on its validity or not. Doom 2016 makes several references to elements from Doom 3, including shared elements of each timeline. As for this page the only part of Doom 3 character that really matters is the Quake CHampions Doom Slayer "information", which that section is actually based on. It's not mentioned at all in the upper half ot the page. Doom 2016 is a soft-reboot of both classic doom and Doom3. It shares elements of both. But its very 'loose'. Art of Doom Eternal also seems to make references to Doom 3 as well, but possibly in the 'vega' sees the character in the game as "ancestral memories'/laternate universe memories', not necessairly his history from his original timeline.Baggins (talk) 03:35, March 29, 2020 (UTC)

I'll clarify my point that because I'll admit my terminology was a bit confusing. When I say DOOM 3 is not cannon, I mean the story of the Marine of DOOM 3 does not fall in line with the DOOM Slayer's story as of right now. I believe it's possible that the Slayer could currently be in DOOM 3's universe; however, the corelations with the Marine and the Slayer in the page are as of right now unfounded. At this point it is safe to assume that DOOM 2016 and Eternal are continuations to the classic DOOM storyline rather than the previously assumed "Soft-reboot" as we are directly involving the classic game's story. What is currently concrete is that the Slayer is DOOMguy, but there is no evidence that the DOOM 3 Marine is, hence why the mention of the Slayer being involved with DOOM 3's story should be dropped from the page until concretely proven otherwise. Bearing no ill feelings towards Quake Champions, the story telling within Champions is made by a different team and not specifically the team who are working on the current DOOM story so any information should be taken with a grain of salt. I'll say again, I think it's possible that DOOM 3 is cannon; however, there is no true evidence that %100 proves that the Slayer and the Marine are one in the same therefore the connection between the two should be dropped from the page. Singe (talk) 05:10, March 29, 2020 (UTC)

I don't disagree with you , but that's one reason I leave that section (Doom 3 marine) only to the Quake CHampions section, which includes quotes related to Doom 3. All areas above the Quake 3 champions only pertains to Doom 2016/Doom Eternal with a nod to classic Doom (evnts). We don't realy know where 'classic doom fits on a timeline either'.. all that "worlds and time" non-linear existing for thousands of years time travel shenanigans... We don't even know if classic doom was even in the 'same universe' or not, see multiverse from Art of Doom Eternal. IN anycase I think its pretty clear QUake Champions sectuion is seperated from the main games sections. Baggins (talk) 05:29, March 29, 2020 (UTC)

Not to mention DOom's placement on an timeline has always been kind of nebulous... With some sources placing it possilby in early 2000s, others in the 22nd century. But its never been locked down.. and is that 20th centuror 21st centuryin the 'same universe" or parallel universes? Who can say? The developers maybe but they haven't. Art of Doom ETernal does imply parallel universes though, but no specific dates.Baggins (talk) 05:33, March 29, 2020 (UTC)

I understand your point, and I accept your reasoning. I will admit I did get lost in the sections of this page because the Quake section is so expansive leading me to forget that it was for a different section, but I will say I think the section has enough to be placed in it's own page. To keep things from being confusing this page should probably be exclusively for the DOOM Slayer explaining his time in DOOM I, II, 64, 2016, and Eternal, and the Quake Champions Slayer should be placed on it's own page. I'm not arguing timelines, just sugesting that we clarify about the one partially concrete character in this admitedly confusing series. As a final note the first paragraph of the page mentions that the Slayer is the protagonist of "Doom, Doom II: Hell on Earth, Doom 3, Final Doom, Doom 64, Doom (2016), Quake Champions and Doom Eternal," and I feel the ommition of DOOM 3 is necissary to not add any more confusion on the topic. Singe (talk) 05:53, March 29, 2020 (UTC)

I resectioned it, and put more distinct headings so it should be pretty clear at this point that top is everythigng one need to know about the Doom (2016) Doom Slayer, and everything at the bottom is Quake Champions adaptaiton of the character. I also expanded the top's history, hopefully clear and concise manner. It still needs better summaries of Doom 2016, and Doom Eternal, not sure why anyone hasn't finished the summary section in the past? But it should be pretty clear at this point, that there are two halves to the article (see the index)Baggins (talk) 02:33, March 30, 2020 (UTC)

I would also like to add to this conversation, if that's ok. The Soul Cube being shown in Doom Eternal is just an easter egg, nothing more. While Id themselves haven't outright said "yeah, Doom 3 isn't canon to the rest of the francise", there is enough in-game hints from both 2016 and Eternal, plus codex entries, etc those flashback cutscenes proving that the Doom Slayer is Doomguy. The Doom Marine from Doom 3 has nothing to do with the rest of the francise. There's quite a few pages on this wiki that haven't been updated in ages, before Doom Eternal was released, that have speculation on who the Doom Slayer is. A page talking about alternate timelines, etc. Those pages are outdated and aren't factually correct anymore. Plus, the Quake Champions stuff isn't canon, either. Zero mention of it is in Eternal. It's just a cosmetic thing. I feel like some of those old pages need to be deleted, or updated. The included image here of this timeline chart is basically canon. Doom 3 never has been, and probally never will be canon to the rest of the games. (While the image does forget Final Doom, just pretend it's in there before Doom 64). While canon can always change (the next Doom game could add or remove so many elements from the story of Eternal, who knows), i firmly believe a consensus should be reached on this page. Doomguy=Doom Slayer, Doom 3 is not canon, and Quake stuff is also not canon/indicative of anything. And something needs to be done about outdated lore pages. This is the timeline image i was talking about. ExodusBF4 (talk) 10:34, 10 May 2021 (UTC)[1]

In Regards to The Slayer's Attitude towards Humanity

I do believe that this: "Despite protecting mankind from demons for years, Slayer seems to have very little if any interest of humanity as such, possibly view them as immature and foolish as they bring demons to their world on their own due to their greed for hellish energy. Yet he never injures or killed any of the people he meets, at most intimidated them or push them away when they were in his way." should be removed from the Personality and traits section of the Wiki Article. If anything, the Slayer has shown sympathy towards humankind. For example, in the lore of Doom, he's sent as security to the UAC facilities on the Mars and its surrounding moons, as a punishment (?) for assaulting a CO after being ordered to fire on the innocent. Would that not demonstrate a clear and personal connection he has with humanity? Defending the innocent is something that comes naturally to people with empathy, and the Slayer is no exception. The death of Daisy is more symbolic of the billions of people killed at the hands of Hell's armies, as touched on in the article. Daisy as a symbolic tipping point would stand to reason that the Slayer truly does care about those who don't deserve death. I've seen screenshots of the Slayer with his presumed wife and son, who are assumed to have gotten killed by demons during their first invasion of Earth. That would make his motivations during and post-Doom II about avenging his lost family as well as defending those who can't defend themselves. This comes to a head in Doom 64, where the Slayer locks himself in Hell so no invasion can take place on any planet again. Obviously this doesn't pan out, and as evidenced by the opening of Doom 2016 and Doom: Eternal. In these openings, it's very obvious that the Slayer feels personally responsible for the deaths of those who he couldn't defend. A brief glance down at the scientist in the elevator at the beginning of Doom 2016, followed by the cracking of his knuckles and destroying of the panel is evidence enough that the Slayer is pissed at the loss of innocent life. Throughout Eternal, the Slayer is told that "they are not [his] people to save", however, as explained above, they very much are his responsibility (storming away from the Khan Maykr, snatching the celestial locator from Valen's hand, a pissed off over the shoulder glance at King Novik's ghost, etc.). Even when offered what he personally lost (i.e. his wife, son, and bunny), he rejects it for what he wants isn't in the best interest for the people around him. The only instances where the Slayer has physically interacted with people negatively is on the Phobos Base in Eternal. It's likely he's under the impression that because it's a UAC facility, it's run by the corrupt, and therefore the employees are corrupt, hence dragging the guy by the keycard around his neck to unlock the door, snatching a Plasma off a scared shitless marine, and physically moving the marine out of the way of the control panel to the BFG 10000. He otherwise responds well with people. His relationship with the ARC intern is something worthwhile pointing to as evidence of this. In The Ancient Gods, barring The Father from taking physical form and giving The Dark Lord one, so he can kill the latter and put a total end to demons and Hell, and all that comes with it is for the benefit of the newly reforming humanity. Point being, the Slayer doesn't resent humanity or have very little interest as they are essentially his people. He does what he does for a reason; to protect the innocent. This excerpt from the article isn't very representative of how truly good-natured the Slayer is, and should be adjusted accordingly.

Title of the character

The name of character should be move back into Doomguy, Director officially said the name is really Doomguy. Here's the reliable source https://www.gamesradar.com/its-official-doom-guys-name-is-doom-guy/

Outdated Trivia Entry there's only one Doom Slayer

I think the trivia:

-It's possible that "Doom Slayer" as a title refers to anyone brave enough to oppose the forces of Hell, single-handedly. Also, with the presence of an exiled Sentinel in Hell itself, this could imply the Marine wasn't the first to bare such a title.

is very outdated.

We currently know as a fact that "Doom Slayer" is a title held by only one person, the same Classic Doomguy. The suggestion of Valen as the "Slayer" is automatically invalid, as we know his story and the fact he and Doomguy coexisted in Argent D'nur when the latter was named Doom Slayer. I suggest rewording the trivia as follows:

-It should be noticed that despite the fact there have been other Doom *protagonists* referred to as "Doomguy, Doom Marine, Marine, Doom protagonist" *(Reference Doom 3, Doom 3 resurrection of Evil, etc...)* the titles: Doom Slayer, Great Slayer, Slayer, and Hellwalker have only been used till now in Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal to refer to the same man who is also supposed to be the same protagonist of Doom 1, Doom 2, and Doom 64.

This page NEEDS a revamp.

Holy fucking shit. I don't know who wrote this wiki page but this is, quite possibly, the most horribly organized page I've ever seen.

Information is all over the place (why are the notes above his abilities???) with little attempt to properly organize them - it genuinely looks like people have just been lazily tacking on additions to the bottom of the page. On top of that it has BLATANTLY INCORRECT INFORMATION; for example, did you know that his abilities sections claims that he can lift 400 QUINTILLION TONS? Not to mention there isn't a single source for a huge portion of the feats and abilities his page claims that he's capable of, but it's pretty obvious whoever wrote that info just copy-pasted it straight from the heroes wiki page for him and inserted some fanfiction bullshit.

Basically this entire page needs to be reworked from the ground up for the sake of accuracy, because it's genuinely shameful that the wiki page for fucking DOOMGUY of all people is like this.