Talk:Comparison of Doom source ports

I'll be simple about it, this is of cause a work in progress. I've layed out most of the menu's, now we only need to fill them. Please, feel free to contribute but try to keep it factual. Eonfge 10:15, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

64-bit?
Since 64-bit is now main stream, we should list the ports that support 64-bit. These would be Chocolate Doom, Odamex, PrBoom, and ReMooD. Status of ZDoom and GZDoom would not be known. GhostlyDeath 20:31, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * is*, last time I heard they don't support 64-bit GhostlyDeath 20:32, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Useless page
I don't see the point. I've fixed some of the more blatant misinformation, but I still don't see the point. These "comparison" tell nothing except their last release date, which is bound to become obsoleted as new releases are, well, released, and this page isn't updated. Especially when the editors doesn't bother checking for facts first -- the latest release of Doomsday is still on the Doomworld frontpage! Then there's that second table with only Chocolate Doom in it, I see the point even less. Is SvStrife Doom-true? Oh, and I see you've re-edited the abandoned status for Doomsday. So here's a link for you: http://www.dengine.net/blog/ That's the Doomsday development blog. EDGE isn't abandoned either by the way. Another link for you: http://edge.sourceforge.net/ -- lurk around the forums a bit, you'll see they're quite active for something "without a community". EDGE merely progresses slowly because its primary developer also works on other projects such as OBLIGE. But I've just taken a look at their SVN and the last log entry at the time I'm typing this is "29 minutes ago" -- how's that for "abandoned"? Last Doomsday SVN entry 13 hours. I'll spare you the Eternity and PrBoom links because you haven't reverted them. --Gez 10:36, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it's a potentially useful page to have around. It's nice to be able to compare the features of different source ports. Clearly Eonfge has made a few mistakes in the information he's added, but that's nothing that can't be cleared up. I also think it's unfair for you to accuse him of trolling just because he's added some inaccurate information - you should assume good faith here.
 * I've fixed up the information about Chocolate Doom, which does run on MacOS of course (along with many other systems) and also has a client-server multiplayer system. Fraggle 11:15, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Nice from you to ad some information. Just had my lunch break and I know that some info was still incorrect. As you might have seen GEZ, it's a work in progress. Yes, it's odd that only chocolade doom is in the second list, but that's why we should expend it. I wanted to give it a look, but that of cause takes time. I do believe it's good to make a comparison page, because this is a 'wiki' and with so many source ports, one should be able to make a desent comparison, especialy if you see the Source portpage. That one ain't very pretty or useful either! so please, to all, help us making a nice comparison list.Eonfge 11:32, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * It'll only be potentially useful if it's kept up to date. And I wouldn't bet on it. A system of templates such as this one, but for each port, could make it more useful as it would update both a central activity comparison page and the ports' own articles, but that too rely on it being maintained (nobody bothered to update the EDGE page until I just did it right now). --Gez 11:36, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * That's why I advice to keep it 'general'. So no deep backgrounds on all kernal-supports and render-modes. As long as it provides a accepteble comparison between the different ports. Eonfge 12:01, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Comparison by content
I can honestly say I don't find the selected criteria to be very relevant. Where is, for example, "boom-compatible" or "limit-removing"? Those are two of the most commonly found requirements for mods on /idgames. "Doom-true" implies that adding new features makes it "disallow the original Doom experience" even if said new features aren't used. --Gez 11:46, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Instead of complaining, you better come up with a catchy term. I Couldn't think of anything to make a quick comparison with Chocolate doom and Zdaemon possible, in terms of doom-ish. Both are Doom, I totally agree. But it's no denying that Zdaemon is a lot more different then Chocolate Doom. Limit removing is a good one, will ad that one too.Eonfge 12:01, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I was thinking about something like this:


 * It allows to showcase each port's strengths and weaknesses. --Gez 12:23, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Ergonomically it might be best to split each group of columns into its own table, like this. The current version is so wide that the ads might cover up parts of it, depending on the user's setup.  Also, the port names will eventually scroll off the left edge of the screen, making it hard to interpret (not everybody has a 1600x1200 display or good eyesight).    Ryan W 17:15, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I think you're right, we better make some priority's an categories on how we should index it. I am honestly suprised because when I left home 5 hours ago, this page was only in 'v0.1'.Eonfge 17:28, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I think it would be better to add the license and OS support too the 'general box'. What are the criteria for 'custom content'? I think it's save to say that all source ports support PWADs. Also, at 'demo' there is v1.9 and Complet-N. Is that not the same? if so, I would say we go for 1.9 or 'vanilla'Eonfge 17:28, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * People have had trouble making PWADs work on cell phones and handheld game platforms (there was a Doomworld thread about this recently). It could also be a problem for homebrew console ports, with their limited RAM and read-only media, though maybe those are all dead now.


 * "Vanilla" can mean one of at least six demo formats (see the PrBoom documentation). COMPET-N used one of them, the "doom2.exe" version of v1.9, but so did many other projects.    Ryan W 18:34, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * "Custom content of a nature impossible to create with the vanilla engine, even with deutex or nwt" would be a little too long for a header. So I don't mean "new graphics/sounds/etc." but new obstacles/monsters/weapons (without cannibalizing others with dehacked). --Gez 19:33, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I would dispute the need for the "vanilla accuracy" column. The other columns are all non-debateable yes or no answers. But the afore mentioned column is something open to considerable debate. Not to mention that it's not even clear as to what Doom engine game it's talking about .--Verm 4 June 2009


 * Not that much debate. ChocoDoom is accurate down to the original bugs and limits, if you find a Doom quirk that's not replicated by ChocoDoom it'll be treated as a bug and fixed asap. PrBoom is practically as accurate if you use the appropriate settings. ZDoom, on the other hand, fixes many vanilla bugs even if in doing so it alters the behavior slightly (e.g., the blockmap glitch which makes hitscans sometimes pass through monsters and players without affecting them, especially noticeable with a BFG9000 and a Spider Mastermind; where people were arguing that because of this fix it made the E3M8 fight too easy). Legacy altered Doom behavior even more, fixing some harmless vanilla bugs (such as voodoo dolls...) and introducing many more. Odamex and ZDaemon are based on older versions of ZDoom which had less deviated from the original Doom codebase, so they're more vanilla-accurate than current versions of ZDoom. And so on. It's pretty easy to quantify, really. --Gez 23:24, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Hacx 1.2
Should Hacx be added to the "supported games fields, given that the "official" v1.2 release is a standalone Iwad?


 * I consider it a borderline case. On one hand it has had a commercial release which gives it a certain weight amongst WADs. But on the other hand, the commercial release was small and relatively insignificant. I'm not sure whether the 1.2 release has gained much mainstream attention, but to me it looks like it hasn't. Overall my personal estimation is that Hacx isn't comparable to Chex, Strife or the Raven IWADs in notability terms and should be left out of the supported games listing because of that. -- Janizdreg 16:23, January 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * So far, source ports with support for the Hacx IWAD include ZDoom, GZDoom, EDGE, Chocolate Doom, and Eternity, AFAIK. I know that DaniJ was also interested in adding it to Doomsday as well. Given that it's now a feature for many of the most popular ports, it would be justified. --Gez 17:41, January 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, the features compared on this wiki article are biased toward the editing features and supported games of each port (over things like game modes and visuals, which was why I added a section for the later). I agree with Gez that adding Hacx1.2 is justified, with indication that it specifically refers to the 1.2 version. (I.e. the field is called "Hacx1.2" or something).Verm 20:10, January 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, the features compared on this wiki article are biased toward the editing features and supported games of each port (over things like game modes and visuals, which was why I added a section for the later). I agree with Gez that adding Hacx1.2 is justified, with indication that it specifically refers to the 1.2 version. (I.e. the field is called "Hacx1.2" or something).Verm 20:10, January 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, the features compared on this wiki article are biased toward the editing features and supported games of each port (over things like game modes and visuals, which was why I added a section for the later). I agree with Gez that adding Hacx1.2 is justified, with indication that it specifically refers to the 1.2 version. (I.e. the field is called "Hacx1.2" or something).Verm 20:10, January 29, 2011 (UTC)