Talk:List of notable WADs

Deathmatch WADs
What deathmatch WADs do you think we should list here? I'd say at least British 11, dweller2, Execution, Judas, the TeamTNT WADs (Bloodlands, Grievance & Pursuit), Vex-Doom and the xfire series should be listed. Janizdreg 18:22, 26 Oct 2005 (UTC)

? and squares
The notation doesn't work, in Firefox I see question marks ? and in IE I see squares looking exactly the same. I'm using Unicode in all browsers. 84.10.229.242 08:11, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC)


 * I have problems in some situations, although I don't have the energy to examine all my locales right now. I'm open to suggestions on how to re-write the page, avoiding these problems. -- Jdowland 08:31, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC)


 * Just choose something esle, something that will show up OK on all browsers. Why squares? Why don't you choose *, !, @ etc. instead? Or letters - like A, B, C? 84.10.229.242 09:13, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC)

Questions / Critical comments
I'm not quite sure on your notation, does ☐ represent "starts only" i.e. yes, although not tested and not primary purpose? Also I'm not sure about the idea of marking things a "joke wad" since some things, for instance, Action Doom, could arguably be considered a joke wad because it's primarily an attempt at humor but at the same time enough effort was put into it that many people would say it wasn't. I'm curious what other people think. Sarge Baldy 15:56, 6 Apr 2005 (EDT)
 * Yes, ☐ means that it works but it’s not meaned to be played like this. I think that for joke WADs, it should mark the WADs that fit in the article. Ducon 01:03, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT)
 * That byte (or bytes) doesn't display properly in my browser. It seems the page is being sent as UTF-8 so it's probably kosher but maybe annotating in the ASCII subset would cause the fewest problems for people. I'll have a play with my OS encoding settings. Jdowland 07:46, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT)
 * Does it look like a square? Its supposed to look that way :-)80.168.139.164 11:39, 12 Apr 2005 (EDT)
 * In IE/win32; yes. In firefox/win32 and firefox/linux with some latin charset for the latter, no, it varies between a square with hex numbers in it and a question mark. If it's nothing more complex than a square, can I substitute it for some ASCII char? Jdowland 16:41, 12 Apr 2005 (EDT)
 * No, this site is coded in utf-8 (you should get a unicode font). Ducon 01:13, 13 Apr 2005 (EDT)
 * I see, so it's use unicode for the sake of it, rather than because it's useful? Jdowland 08:00, 13 Apr 2005 (EDT)
 * Unicode IS useful. :-) You can write in english, in french, in arab, in chinese and you even can see maths or misc symbols. Look at the Doomworld forums, they accept japanese or other characters. You want some unicode fonts? Ducon 12:11, 13 Apr 2005 (EDT)
 * I know unicode is useful - thanks, I have unicode fonts (my locale isn't UTF in linux however). My objection is using it where there is no apparent gain on using something from the ASCII subset, such as this example. Jdowland 16:43, 13 Apr 2005 (EDT)
 * My locale is utf, but how can you do this in ASCII? Ducon 01:26, 14 Apr 2005 (EDT)
 * Wikimedia is utf-8 compliant. Ducon 11:50, 12 Apr 2005 (EDT)


 * What do you mean by "fit in the article"? Sarge Baldy 10:26, 12 Apr 2005 (EDT)
 * In the JokeWAD article. Er… ☐? ☐ is neutral, maybe but maybe not, ☑ is yo, meant for it and ☒ is no, don’t even think about it (for example no deathmatch starts). For jokeWADs it may mean that the WAD is a bit jokey but not like nuts or mockery. Ducon 11:50, 12 Apr 2005 (EDT)

article aim: list all wads? only noteable ones?
This page is growing too large to be easily readable. Should we not use the categories system to auto-generate a list of WADs which are note-worthy enough to have their own articles? -- Jdowland 11:43, 2 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Good question. Maybe this this page should be replaced by a category and sub-categories. Ducon 17:29, 2 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * Given the discussion at the top of this page, I suggest we have our first VFD :-) -- Jdowland
 * I dont think there's any need to delete it. I think it should be a useful quick reference list of popular WADs and their download links.  Note that there are WADs listed here which havent been written up yet: the red links give a good incentive to people to write articles. Fraggle 10:51, 14 Jul 2005 (UTC)

Co-op thing
I added an extra column on to the table to show co-op status of the map. This is because, especially with map packs with scripting, it is entirely possible to have a level pack that works in SP but not in co-op (Even in Vanilla it's possible through lack of starts). -- TheDarkArchon 01:33, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Good idea. There are also levels that work in co-op but not solo (because it takes two people to open the exit room).    Ryan W 13:56, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Legality of Robocop
From license.txt:

Notwithstanding the foregoing, you may create a map editor, modify maps and make your own maps (collectively referenced as the "Permitted Derivative Works") for the Software. You may not sell or distribute any Permitted Derivative Works but you may exchange the Permitted Derivative Works at no charge amongst other end-users.

The doom source code license and the GNU GPL don't contain anything particular about new wads in Doom, so I see this as the only possible source by which the Robocop wad could be "illegal". And while this quote certainly makes it illegal, it also appears to outlaw any wad file that includes something other than maps. Even if "maps" is considered to include the textures and flats in maps, certainly any wad which replaces menu graphics, sprites, sounds etc would be categorized as illegal.

I'd just like some concrete source on why Robocop is any more or less illegal then a load of other pc/tcs, because without it there's no reason to single it out with the "technically illegal" comment. Goyuken 03:50, 16 October 2007 (UTC)


 * This is not a new topic (see the Raphael Quinet story here); you may want to ask at Doomworld in hopes of finding more experienced observers. For bonus points, try searching old forum discussions and/or Usenet threads first, to confuse yourself further.  :>


 * My understanding is that all third-party mods are arguably copyright violations unless they explicitly disclaim ownership (very rare, and the readme file might get separated from the WAD anyway) and the author of the editing program has signed the "Data Utility License" (most did not, I imagine, especially the newer ones). Additionally, some modders do things that would be copyright violations even in freely licensed software (such as inserting ripped sprites or sound effects).  As elsewhere on the internet, this may or may not attract comment from the copyright holder.  I have not looked at either of the Robocop files so I don't know if the latter point applies.


 * All this is typically ignored by the community at large, as you say, unless a major problem appears to be brewing (e.g. the aborted Star Wars TC). It might well be ignored here also, if not for Wikia's insistence that we be somewhat careful.


 * In any case, only the engine was GPLed, not the entire program, so the more restrictive license still applies, does it not? Even if the source release was deemed to alter the licensing conditions, does that apply retroactively to existing PWADs?


 * Ryan W 09:39, 16 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Making a derivative work you have limited copyrights conditioned by the authors of the original thing. As for using graphics or other resources from the games, you can as long as the patch wad requires the game the stuff is taken from to run (which is the basic condition id demands, in addition to non-profit use of the resulting add-ons). This was confirmed during the development of KDiZD when they emailed id Software about it. I've never played the Robocop TC or been familiar with what it uses, but, by its theme, it sounds more likely to violate the copyrights of the owners of the Robocop franchise than id's. Who is like God? 04:38, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

removal of super shotgun pwad (moved from User_talk:Fraggle)
hi. um why did you remove my super shotgun for doom 1 and ultimate doom patch wad?

Vsa7a 09:56, 10 March 2009 (UTC)vsa7a


 * PWADs that include graphics and sounds from the commercial Doom releases are illegal because the content is copyrighted. Generally you should avoid linking to such WADs in the future. -- Janizdreg 01:52, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

what? thats BS. all it is is take doom II's super shotgun and make it usable in doom and ultimate doom to make it easier. its the same game by the same copyright holders! theres not a way to take for some other use or some other nonsense. it sure in hell makes the game easier and more flexible as well as its better than that one wad which is posted with no way or link to download! -- Vsa7a 08:57, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, my main reason for removing it is that I didn't consider it notable, List of WADs isn't a list of every single WAD file ever made; it it was, then there would literally be thousands of entries in it. Instead, it's a list of fairly notable WADs that people have made for Doom. Not to denigrate your WAD but it's really just a fairly minor hack to put the Super Shotgun in Doom and not really comparable to other entries in the list; GothicDM, Eternal Doom, KDiZD, etc.
 * I should clarify that I don't think you did anything wrong by adding your WAD to the list, because we don't currently have any solid criteria for what should be in it. But I think we should take the opportunity now to set some guidelines for what's in that list, to stop it ballooning.  Fraggle 00:05, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

what? it says 'list of wads' and you saying it cant accept a simple hack that includes doom more altogether. and it has to be 'notable' and such. well how about the wads that dont even work or are inaccessible? such as the last one ZooW: Alien Dimension Jimi 2004 Doomsday how is that notable if it just sits there and looks pretty? that sucks! if you really want to make it 'list of notable wads' go ahead change the name and tell me where is this fabbled wad archive of idgames or show me something else thats related of an official doom place to put a simple element that belongs in the game altogether....notability my ass -- Vsa7a 08:52, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * If it's just an indiscriminate collection of information (literally a "list of WADs") then in my opinion this page isn't really a useful resource. By contrast, a collection of notable WADs is something that is potentially useful to people.  It's quite likely that there are other WADs in the list that don't belong here and should be removed if we set some notability guidelines.
 * I appreciate that you're probably proud of your mod and want other people to play it, but please try to get some perspective - it should be obvious that your mod doesn't "fit" with others in the list that consists of some of the most well-known and highly-rated Doom mods of all time. As I said before, you haven't done anything wrong - we just need to set more clear guidelines for the purpose of this page and what belongs here.
 * As for the idgames archive, you can find more information here. I hope this is helpful :-) Fraggle 22:52, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Notability criteria
Following my comments above, I think we should define some notability criteria for what is included in this list. If there are no restrictions on what is allowed, it may as well be a list of every WAD in the idgames archive. I think that if this article is to be "useful", it should be a list of notable WADs, rather than simply a list of WADs (perhaps we should change the name!)

In terms of how a WAD can be classified as "notable", I think it's possible to set some guidelines based on citation of sources. For example:
 * Inclusion in the Doomworld top 100 WADs
 * Won an award in the Cacowards
 * The subject of a Doomworld news post - here's Plutonia 2, for example.
 * Referenced by some other news source.

One thing that I do think is rather tricky is that there may be WADs that are considered "notable" but possibly don't meet any of these criteria. This may particularly be the case with newly-released WADs that are obviously notable in some way but have not yet been the subject of awards or a major news post. We could perhaps extend the criteria to include "evidence exists of significant discussion related to the WAD". Then again, it may not even be necessary. Fraggle 00:28, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


 * not sure where my last comment went. I think the article should be removed. Notability of a WAD means it is due an article, not a line in this table. Half of the table's utility would then be provided by a category: WADs or such like. The remaining utility, about WAD status etc. (SP, MP, etc.) would be lost, or it could be partially replicated using more fine-grained categories (Cat: single player WADS etc.) but I just think this isn't the right place for that kind-of information. -- 128.240.229.68 11:40, 20 March 2009 (UTC) (User:Jdowland)